Old 02-13-2023, 01:06 PM   #1
Grewup on the CW
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Default Photo shopped disclaimer?

Question in general, not related to any pictures posted here on RP BUT using a current subject matter as example.
Example:
I have enjoyed all the #1309 pictures posted of the recent photo shoot with Lerro. Several different photogs have posted similar shots so those images are fresh in my mind. I was on Ebay today and several #1309 photo's came up as suggestions. I clicked on one right away as from the thumbnail it's attractive picture. What caught my attention was the "Snow" that was added to the picture. I say added because I have yet to see any other pictures with snow in them on those clear bright sunny day pictures posted so far.
Question:
If you are selling your own work and you altered it in a way like adding "snow" that is clearly not the actual conditions, Do you not have to disclaim that you altered the picture? Or is calling it "Artwork" your disclaimer?

Again it's a nice picture, I like it but just wondering about a disclaimer. The picture so far has not been posted here on RP and I appreciate the photogs that do tell us that their posted picture was alerted. As it gives us less experienced photogs somewhat of explanation of how to obtain a similar shot.
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Old 02-13-2023, 02:11 PM   #2
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If the buyer doesn't ask, the seller doesn't have to tell. I've been quite fortunate to have sold a large amount of my photography over the years in person and online, and I've maybe been asked twice if the shot was "Real". It's not really a situation where authenticity is required or questioned.


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Old 02-14-2023, 10:01 PM   #3
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Do you have a link to the picture? There were two of these C&O 1309 charters. One was a 2-day from Feb 2-3, and the other, a 3-day, from Feb 7-9.

I was on the first one, which featured very cold weather, with a mixture of clouds and sun....mostly clouds, and on the second day, we did have some light snow for about an hour. I was not on the second trip, which generally featured better light, fewer steam leaks, more locations and much warmer weather. If it came from the second trip, it probably was Photoshopped. If it came from the first, it is possible there was snow in the air.
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Old 02-15-2023, 12:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Do you have a link to the picture? There were two of these C&O 1309 charters. One was a 2-day from Feb 2-3, and the other, a 3-day, from Feb 7-9.

I was on the first one, which featured very cold weather, with a mixture of clouds and sun....mostly clouds, and on the second day, we did have some light snow for about an hour. I was not on the second trip, which generally featured better light, fewer steam leaks, more locations and much warmer weather. If it came from the second trip, it probably was Photoshopped. If it came from the first, it is possible there was snow in the air.
If they are real, they just don't seem natural.
Here are the links for the Ebay pictures that caught my attention:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134448205990

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134448208178
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Old 02-15-2023, 08:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW View Post
If they are real, they just don't seem natural.
Here are the links for the Ebay pictures that caught my attention:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134448205990

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134448208178

Yes, they are fakes and at least in my humble opinion, not even credible fakes. Only a few places near Frostburg had any snow on the ground at all, and even those places didn't have 100% cover. The actual snow that fell was never enough to even create a dusting. Those pictures are more like paintings than photos, with the exception of the depot shots, which don't depict any snow. Those look OK.

A few things:

I have noticed that even a few of the photos from this event (Feb 2-3) that were posted on this site look a little overprocessed to me. I would like to hear what other folks here think. In particular, I've seen a few in which the color temperature looks excessive as does the saturation. The ground on 3 or 4 of them is glowing a golden color which doesn't look like reality.

Another thing to note here is that there were some challenges on this charter. There were things that were beyond Pete's control, notably weather and locomotive performance. It was windy and cold, with not a lot of direct sunlight. The locomotive was the biggest disappointment. 1309 leaked steam like nobody's business. On so many of the runbys, the leaks were so bad that you could only see the nose of the locomotive. On others, the running gear was obscured and it looked like they were running with the cylinder cocks open....which they weren't. Honestly....I think I have fewer than 10 clean runbys with good light from the two days. I've already posted the best of the lot and moved on.

The 1309 really did not win me over as a fan.
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Last edited by KevinM; 02-16-2023 at 12:56 AM. Reason: Edited for brevity
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Old 02-16-2023, 01:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
Yes, they are fakes and at least in my humble opinion, not even credible fakes. Only a few places near Frostburg had any snow on the ground at all, and even those places didn't have 100% cover. The actual snow that fell was never enough to even create a dusting. Those pictures are more like paintings than photos, with the exception of the depot shots, which don't depict any snow. Those look OK.

A few things:

I have noticed that even a few of the photos from this event (Feb 2-3) that were posted on this site look a little overprocessed to me. I would like to hear what other folks here think. In particular, I've seen a few in which the color temperature looks excessive as does the saturation. The ground on 3 or 4 of them is glowing a golden color which doesn't look like reality.

Another thing to note here is that there were some challenges on this charter. There were things that were beyond Pete's control, notably weather and locomotive performance. It was windy and cold, with not a lot of direct sunlight. The locomotive was the biggest disappointment. 1309 leaked steam like nobody's business. On so many of the runbys, the leaks were so bad that you could only see the nose of the locomotive. On others, the running gear was obscured and it looked like they were running with the cylinder cocks open....which they weren't. Honestly....I think I have fewer than 10 clean runbys with good light from the two days. I've already posted the best of the lot and moved on.

The 1309 really did not win me over as a fan.

Thanks for the input and it just didnt seem real, more overexposed to create that snowy look and then a snow layer added. It is to me, Art work, and some people like the added effects but after seeing the "real conditions" in other photos, I was like no, that cannot be real. Thanks for chiming in since you were there and too bad there were issues that made it not the best photo charter.

I'm open to your suggestion for further discussion on photos that seem over processed. Its a good teaching tool and might wake the forum up, at least for a little bit. Do you have a sample/example to share to start the discussion?
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Old 02-16-2023, 02:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grewup on the CW View Post
I'm open to your suggestion for further discussion on photos that seem over processed. Its a good teaching tool and might wake the forum up, at least for a little bit. Do you have a sample/example to share to start the discussion?
I've never been one to "call out" other photographers, unless I see them doing something unethical or illegal, so I'll refrain from criticism of any specific ones. But if you use the site search engine to look for CO 1309, you'll find a lot of recent entries to look at. Here is one of mine:

Image © Kevin Madore
PhotoID: 824397
Photograph © Kevin Madore

Note how the grass/hay is a pale, straw color. I think you will find that this is typical of what grass/hay looks like in the wintertime. Since my camera tends to shoot a bit "cold" in Auto White Balance in situations like this, I adjusted the color balance in Lightroom to 5500/+10, which is what the software uses for "daylight." My saturation was +20, which is a bit more than I usually go, primarily because the scene was backlit. I think this scene looks realistic.....which is what I typically go for....what the eye saw, as opposed to how I wish it would look. This scene was backlit, and while the lighting was not wonderful, I didn't think it appropriate to "nuke it" to make it look brighter than it really was.

In that stack from the recent charters, there are a number of views from various vantage points around Helmstetter's Curve, some of which are likely from this very same run-by, while others were taken from the charter a week later. In several of them, the grass doesn't look like this at all, but rather, is a glowing gold color, which does not look like what I saw when I was there. I am trying to figure out why these look so different. Are the camera sensors that different, or are people taking a very different approach to editing than I do. I will say, that I can usually recognize a Canon sensor, just by looking at the tint of the blue sky. Canons have a certain look.....which is why I shoot Nikon.
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Old 02-16-2023, 03:42 PM   #8
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I see an example where another photographer was standing near you Kevin, and holy hell they beat those pixels to death in photoshop.

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Old 02-22-2023, 05:22 PM   #9
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If I found the other shot you're talking about, it looks like to me he oversaturated the whole scene to pull out whatever blue he possibly could without realizing you can adjust saturation for each color individually. Like I am always needing to bring the yellow tone down in my shots to get the grass (or weeds in the Carolina) to look more natural.
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Old 02-23-2023, 03:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
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If I found the other shot you're talking about, it looks like to me he oversaturated the whole scene to pull out whatever blue he possibly could without realizing you can adjust saturation for each color individually. Like I am always needing to bring the yellow tone down in my shots to get the grass (or weeds in the Carolina) to look more natural.
Yes, I have seen a fair number of images from this charter where either the color temperature or the saturation or both are really elevated. I don't know whether folks are doing that deliberately, or perhaps they are just working from an uncalibrated monitor and they cannot see the effect. It definitely looks unnatural.
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